Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Caylee's Body - Forensic Proof?


by blogger jgl

I had half an ear on this last night, and was a bit suspicious of what i heard. The context was that police have "forensic evidence" that "formally indicates" Caylee was dead. I was wondering what the heck this meant. As far as i can tell, they found a hair that they can "prove" was from a decomposing body.

The sheriff's office in Orange County, Florida, now says that lab tests have confirmed that a decomposing body had been in the trunk of a car driven by Casey Anthony...

...Forensics tests confirmed there had been a decomposing body in the car, the statement said. Detectives disclosed at a July hearing the trunk contained hair samples appearing to belong to Caylee, a strong odor and suspicious stain that glowed under black light.

A couple things...

First off, this video is humorous as Nancy and some guy debate whether there is new "DNA evidence" or "scientific evidence". (embed video might not work in firefox - follow above link)



It sort of highlights how the media can occasionally bypass the meaning of evidence and just parade around a fact as true if "forensics" supports it. Also, in case you don't know what DNA stands for, Nancy's got you covered.

Second, let's look at this hair evidence. Here's a video about the analysis by people "who are known to be experts on this stuff".



I'm not overly confident in the conclusion. I *think* the analysis completed at the body farm is based on a 2001 article (Linch, CA, Prahlow JA. Postmortem Microscopic Changes Observed at the Human Head Hair Proximal End. J Forensic Sci 2001;46(1):15-20). This article demonstrates that these postmortem bands are sometimes found on decomposed hair, but not all the time. More importantly, there is not a lot of documentation on whether antemortem hairs could sometimes exhibit this banding. Of course, proving that antemortem hairs could *never* look like postmortem hairs would be a tall order.

I'm wondering if any blind proficiency tests of this type have ever been administered to hair analysts. Microscopy is tough. Can they get it right 100% of the time? I also haven't read who at the body farm was analyzing the hairs. Maybe it is author Linch and he's done a lot more work on this since his 2001 study.

Hopefully the media and investigators aren't jumping the gun on this "forensic proof" that a dead body was in the trunk. It sounds like a safe bet. From what i am reading, the trunk smelled bad and cadaver dogs hit on it (i think - i've been lazily following this story).

As for the DNA that may or may not be there... here's a prediction. They will find Caylee's hair in the trunk of her mom's car. Even if the mom turns out to be innocent. Hair gets all over the place. I wouldn't be surprised if my hair was all over the trunk of my parent's cars when i was a kid. Even worse, they'll do mtDNA and find hair that *might* have been from Caylee (gasp!) or from her mother (sigh).

Two final thoughts... #1 why do they have to dress up Nancy's guest hosts like Nancy herself? #2 are they pronouncing "hair" as "air"?


Clarification: They took both "hair and "air" samples from the trunk to test for a decomposing body. This is turning into a Dr. Seuss story. what are they testing the air for... i'll have to see what research has been doen on this.

75 comments:

Michelle said...

Yeah the bands on the hair do not necessarily mean the body was decomposing. I one of my school mates did their thesis on this subject and found that you can get the same bands by burying the hairs in dirt (although I can't remember for how long).

I think this is a valid possibility for this evidence since the hair was found in the trunk of a car which likely is to have dirt in it.

I don't know much on the topic but I do believe it's not definitive evidence.

Michelle said...

...ah sorry for the typo.

"One of my school mates..."

Anonymous said...

This Casey Anthony story is absolutely insane. There’s just so many lies and deceptions by Casey Anthony. I doubt she’ll ever tell the truth about a thing. She stole money from her parents, her 80 year old grandmother, her best friend Amy. There was chloroform being found in Casey's car. A spokesperson for Casey's lawyer said that someone had used cleaning to alleviate the smell of the trunk, and that chloroform may have been a chemical in the cleaners. However, a few hours after she was arrested in July, her computer was confiscated and websites with information about chloroform had been visited. Casey’s dad George reported that his shed was broken into and gas cans were stolen. Casey told her dad she was sorry about what happened to his shed. He later found them in Casey’s trunk and that she was the one that broke into the shed. One of the Anthony’s neighbors, Brian Burner, said that Casey asked to borrow a shovel from him. There are many strange comments and lies left by Casey on her friends’ MySpace pages, such as “What is given, Can be taken away. Everyone lies. Everyone dies.”Casey was out partying with her friends all the time, saying that Caylee was with a nanny. Obviously Casey is deeply involved with what happened to Caylee. Also I think Casey’s parents are in serious denial. Debates that Cindy has had with Nancy Grace are strange, and Cindy insists on telling everyone what Caylee was wearing the day she was missing (she couldn’t have known). George has been saying that law enforcement has people under surveillance that “have” Caylee and that those people are being watched.
J.Z.

Anonymous said...

I am not fully informed on the details of this situation but from what I gather the mother appears to be deceptive as if she is hiding some, and no doubt she is. The lifestyle Caylee's mother had been living prior to her disappearance was not exactly that of a caring mother who truly wanted a child. The fact that there was hair, an odor and a stain in the carpet leads me to believe that the child is no longer living, but as the previous post suggested, this may not be definitive evidence that she is deceased. Casey Anthony has made numerous false statements in regard to her child's disappearance and is not co-operating with the police. It seems apparent to me that she is guilty and is hiding the truth.
In regard to Caylee's hair being found in the trunk, Can they simply test the hair and know based upon the hair that the body was decomposing. I am not educated in this area but what is to say that that hair didn't just fall in the truck some time ago and has simply been decomposing itself in the trunk of the car. Granted that doesn't explain the smell and the stain, but there is much more to be explained within this case. I hope the truth is revealed and those responsible are brought to justice.

J.S.V.

Anonymous said...

This is a very sad story, because first of all a innocent child is possibly dead. I strongly believe the mother, Casey Anthony had something to do with Caylee being missing. The evidence collected from the truck of her car is proof enough that somekind of foul play occurred. I just hope the truth and evidence will unravel this unfortunate event.
K.F.

Anonymous said...

I have vaguely been following this case on the news, but from what I have seen and read I do believe the mother is responsible for whatever happened this child. The fact that she has lied numerous times to authorities, is unwilling to cooperate, and waited so long to even report her daughter as missing make her seem guilty. As far as the evidence found in the trunk of Casey's car, I don't really know anything about processing the evidence, but the stain and the odor only add to the assumption that Casey is guilty. The hair they found in the trunk I feel does not stand as strongly as the other evidence simply because the hair could have been tranferred from a bag, a stroller, or anything else that Caylee came in contact with not necessarily indicating that her body was in the trunk. And like was stated earlier in the blog the bands that formed on the hair can be formed when hair is covered in dirt. I hope investigators are able to find enough concrete evidence to convict whoever is responsible for the disapperance and possible death of Caylee.
J.R.N

Anonymous said...

There are so many inconsistencies in her story that she makes herself look guilty for doin all this lying. But the fact that she has not cooperated with the police, partied after the child was missing, and lied about her place of employment make me believe that either she killed the child or had something to do with her disappearance. Her mother is just trying to deny the fact that her daughter may well have killed her granddaughter. Also the fact that two seperate cadaver dogs hit on Casey's car as having the 'death scent' or the smell of decomposing flesh is not something to be looked over either.
.NB

Anonymous said...

I would have to agree with most everyone's opinion about this case. Almost everything seems to comfirm that Casey had a great amount of involvement with the whereabouts of this child. I think that the mother's unwillingness to communicate honestly with the law enforcement should be a major red flag. Although I have just started to read about this case, there seems to be a lot of important evidence already brought up and identified as legit. Someone, if not the mother, is going to be held resposible.

C.M.D.

Anonymous said...

I smell an insanity plea. The fact that cadaver dogs smelled a CADAVER, not a slice of pizza I don't care how long it may have been in there pizza doesn't smell like dead animal, hair found in that same place, chloroform (maybe to knock the kid out?) the mother and GRANDPARENTS unwillingness to confess to whatever may have happened, I would rather have the mother tell police that she sold the child into white slavery than just avoid telling what happened. ultimately I think that they know who did it if they are not responsible themselves, and since they are not talking we have to let the science spell out the most complete case that the police and forensics experts can put together

Anonymous said...

I believe that Casey's knows what happen to her child but she refused to say or she doesn't really where she is at because she was to busy getting in trouble herself. Casey needs some help. /ws

Anonymous said...

Just how is it possible to tell from a strand of hair if it came from a live or deceased body? Forensics has obviously come a long way.

-SSS

Anonymous said...

I have been following this case off and on. I believe strongly that Casey knows what happened to Caylee. I do not believe Caylee is still alive. However, I do not believe the hairs found in the trunk of the car are evidence if foul play. Caylee's hair is going to be in her mother's car. I am not educated in this area and wonder how it can be possible to determine the hairs came from a decomposing body. On the other hand the smell and stains do lean towards foul play.
L.S.

Forensic Bloggers said...

good comments.

i need to check into the chloroform test a little more. i heard that mentioned on nancy grace and it sounded like it might be stretching the science.

most people (in the comments and on tv) seem to be basing their assumption of guilt on the behavior of casey anthony. this is reasonable, as her behavior is something we all can relate to and something we all can identify as being something we would not do. as was mentioned numerous times, no one would just "ignore" that their daughter was missing. suspicious behavior indeed and it will be tough for defense attorneys to explain this to a jury.

the lies are also something that most people mention. I'm always cautious when the media "traps" people in lies since sometimes there are reasonable explanations that aren't being shown. with that being said, i'm not sure if we'll ever be seeing any "reasonable" explanations for casey's lies.

on the decomposing hair, the analysis they cite only identifies hair that comes from a decomposing body, a hair that falls out from a living person will not "decompose" in the same way.

also, for SSS, you can use the skills we used in assignment #1 and look up the article that is mentioned in the origial blog post. it explains how they identify hairs from decomposing bodies. you can do this for, you know... fun!

i haven't read anything about those gas cans... might want to see if anyone in the area say suspicious fires out in the woods around the time caylee disappeared. it has been so long potential witnesses might forget.

again, good comments so far.

-jgl

Forensic Bloggers said...

oh - one more thing...

the "everybody lies, everybody dies" thing is from a song by Picture House.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70030

Anonymous said...

The car odor was a made evident by Caylee's grandmom shortly after the mother was arrested... Why was the car not thoroughly investingated right at that point...or was it and it just taked this long to get lab results?? From the video inserts, a reporter said that the odor, oddly enough, was taken into the lab for testing only a couple of weeks ago? is it really possible to detect a decomposing body from an AIR sample??? Also, what would indicate in a hair test that the hell fell out from a live or a dead body? what if the hair itself was dead amd simply fell from the child head at some point in her life? Also, if their was a spot in the trunk that supposedly glew in the black light... why was it not some how extracted and tested as an actual DNA evidentual proof... rather then just the hair sample as a factor.

Anonymous said...

LMM was the 9:18 comment

Anonymous said...

I believe Casey's knows exactly what happened to her daughter. she has been through all this troubles.she was partying when her daughter was missing. the world knows that she has something to do with her disappearance.what kind of parent are they to support Casey,knowing that she's been through all the troubles in the past?the family has severe mental issues.i think the baby has been abused by all the family.this looks like the whole entire family has something to do with the child disappearance.the whole family needs help.

M.S

Anonymous said...

I definitely agree with everyone's post about Caylee. I truly feel sorry for this little girl, and I'm furious with her deceptive mother. What could she have possibly done to this innocent child? I think the police should try and dig deeper for more "forensic" evidence that is also "correct" in nature. DH

Anonymous said...

This is a open and shut case. No real mother would let their child go missing for a month before she reported that she was missing. The evidence that they have is not all the way together but I think they are going to put the pieces together. Hopefully they can find some way to connect the hair found in the car to Caylee. The mother knows way more than we think. I want to know is there any way that the can prove anything from a decomposing body? Regardless this is a very tragic story and the evidence will speak for itself.

B.H.

Anonymous said...

This is a tragic case....I know everybody is basing their information off of Nancy Grace...so here is one of my questions...Where are they going to find an unbiased jury? You can't tell me someone hasn't heard about this case. Second, what about all the other cases Nancy has publically aired and has never followed up on? She is riding this case hard. I am so sick of hearing the same thing over and over again....provide me with new information.

I have read about the hair band and in 22 cases the hair band was not present but there were other characteristics identifying different markers.

Reference her computer, how many people have ever let a family member or friend use their computer under their computer ID?

As for the chloriform, she could have been using it to get high at the club....

I don't agree how any of this has been handled and I don't think all of this information should have been provided for public knowledge until after the trial if there ever is one.

How many times have you ever borrowed anything from your neighbor? A shovel no big deal.

Casey could have put Caylee into hiding to keep her from her mother. I don't know. I think she has some real character flaws but all these people on TV diagnosing her without even talking to her, lets get real.

Lets talk about the Grandma for a minute.....She is complaining about public pursacution for Casey....if she had never called the cops to begin with none of this would be happening. If I remember correctly she is the one that instagated all of this.

This last guy on TV saying he saw Caset coming out of the woods by the railroad tracks in a straw hat? Helloooooo have you seen the clothes she has had on in all those pictures? Do you really think she is going to be seen in a straw hat and further more what took him so long to come forward?

I don't doubt something is truly wrong with this picture and it has been a proven fact Casey is a habitual liar. But she was a habitual liar long before Caylee ever went missing. So, this is nothing new to her family or her friends....lets be real here.

Now to her being in jail, they are complaining about her lounging around....what is she supposed to do? She is on lock down, duhhhh. As for the picture issue and her not having one of Caylee or anybody else up, if no one has been to see her, logical question, where is she suppose to get the picture from?? Out of her butt? Oh, by the way, they checked that when she got stripped searched to go to jail....so no there was nothing there either.

My answer to solving the problem...put her in with general population, there is nothing special about her that she needs isolation, If she gets convicted that is where she is going anyway. I believe after a few days with hard time criminals she will see the light and want to tell the truth or her version of the truth about what happened to Caylee and where she canbe found whether it be alive or dead, and she will be begging for isolation after that. Been then again I am the one that thinks Susan Smith should be drowned every year on the day she drowned her boys and then resesitated until the next year and do it again until the youngest one would turn 18 and then let her drown for good. I feel she should whole heartedly feel what those babies felt. She should also have age inhanced photos monthly of those boys all over her cell. To some this would be considered cruel and unusal punishment but if it was good enough for her to do to those innocent babies it is good enough to be done to her. Hell, we have to fed, clothe, and provide her with medical something she didn't provide for her children.....now back to Casey, if she can't even tell the truth about who her daughters father is, what would make you think she could tell the truth about anything else????

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